REAL TALK RENTALS

The Dos and Don'ts of Property Management

BEN: Coming up on this episode of Real Talk Rentals, we're going to give you the dos and don'ts of property management. Welcome to Real Talk Rentals, a podcast brought to you by On Q Property Management. We're here to give you all the tips and tricks of owning a rental property. I'm your host, Ben, and with me, as always, is Mr. Eric Dixon. Go to property management expert, which is a good thing because today we're going to do a list. We're going to do some do's and don'ts of property management. So it's almost like a lightning round. Guess we're just going to throw stuff out there. See? See what sticks? Um, so let's jump right into it. Eric Let's start with the do's. Give me your top ten. Must do or no for a person owning a rental property. Okay.

ERIC: Full disclosure. Ben gave me a heads up on this one. So this is in no particular order. Right. But I feel like these are kind of the the top the top things to consider and the top do's here. If you're going to think about investing in a rental, you own a rental and what to consider, you know, managing that rental. So my my number one and it is a no order, but if it was to be an order this I bumped to the top of the list it's knowing your why and it kind of sounds like we're a self-help podcast or something but it's know your why of owning this property, right? Or why should I buy one? You need to understand owning rentals or investing in rentals is not a get rich quick scheme. You know, it's not going to it's not going to happen overnight. In fact, it happens so slowly that year to year as you're doing renewals or looking at your Zestimate go up and down all summer or whatever. You wonder, why am I doing this right? So I would say, understand that.

ERIC: Why for me, I was telling you yesterday the my why of owning rentals like I had to replace a roof this summer, an AC this summer we had an insurance claim this summer on another property and I'm sitting there going like, this is a net negative year as far as capital improvements into our portfolio of rentals for my wife and I. So why are we doing it? You know, and you look at the tax benefits, you look at the, you know, servicing all the debt on the properties and all this stuff and you realize, okay, why am I doing this? The three, the five, the ten, the 20 year plan is the why. You know, eventually they're going to be paid off and eventually the you know, if rates go down, you could refinance or, you know, whatever those those things are. So understanding your why is the number one because that will help you with the future don'ts that will go over and even some of the do's you'll be able to make those decisions more clearly.

BEN: Yeah, I think it's important to note, too, and we talked about this yesterday, but the why sometimes for some people is. They have to you know, they're moving and they can't sell. The market's taking a downturn. They can't sell their property. So they're stuck being a landlord. And that's important to know when you're in it. Yeah. And so you're.

ERIC: Like, Hey, why am I owning this? Oh, yeah. Because if I don't rent it out right now, then I'm going to have to service this debt without income or I'm going to take a huge loss on the sale or, or whatever, you know? And some of the, some of the times, the why is not a positive thing. It's just reality smacks you in the face and you go, Why am I doing this? Oh, yeah, because I don't want this worse scenario, right? So yeah, that would be number one. Now, these others not in any order, um, treat it as an investment. You know, it's not an emotional thing. It needs to be an investment. And when this is the hardest is when we sign on clients to use our service. And we're managing now their prime, their former primary residence is now their rental. And they're sitting there going, No, this is our home. It's not an investment property. This is my home. We raised our family here. I got married here. You know, I brought my pets home here. And then we call them about, you know, business. We're talking about lease renewals, renting it, market rate, the tenants not treating it like their home. Right.

BEN: Or it's not the tenant they pictured in that home. Yeah.

ERIC: And again, you've you've mentioned it a lot. A lot of these things are not intentional. Right. Unintentional. Um, but they don't treat it like an investment and they're treating it like their, their old house and it's like, nope, the gear needs to go in your head and shift to it's an investment, not an emotional purchase. So I'd say that's that's one of them. Another one is know your costs. So all the financial sides so know what is your what are your hard costs. So your mortgage payment maybe your uh, property taxes, your insurance, your HOA, your management fees, what are your hard costs? Right. And then what are some of the soft costs, meaning the things you can control. So vacancy being one of the biggest costs. Um, utilities while it's vacant, your costs to renovate it, you need to know the numbers. Yeah. And a lot of us that are real estate investors I'm not a numbers guy. I'm more of a, you know, uh, shoot from the hip type where I'm like, Yeah, it kind of makes sense. Yes, I know, I know. We'll make it up on the back end. Let's just go for it, right? Some people are way on the numbers, but you've got to Even somebody like me, you got to know your numbers. Yeah.

BEN: You don't want to be shocked when something comes in and you're like, Wait, what are all these minuses on the ledger?

ERIC: Yeah, yeah. And you need to know even before you're investing, like, Hey, hypothetically, next summer when I have to renovate this thing, what's that going to cost? Right? You need to at least get some sort of bid, even if it's verbal from a contractor like, Oh yeah, that's going to cost you 20 grand. Yeah. You're like, holy smokes. Like, I'm not going to have have that kind of money next summer. Um, so, you know, know your costs, have a budget for it, understand that the numbers, um, if you know them up front, it's going to speak volumes in the future. Um, I'd say the next one is have a great team around you. So think in your head, if you're self managing it, you still need a team, you still need a team of people to support you if issues come up, whether that's an attorney for evictions, whether that's a property manager, you team up with contractors, handymen, um, a CPA to do your taxes and get all the benefits you can. You know, you need a team around you. It could be that the best team around you is your spouse and you're like, Hey, we are the team for most of this. We don't have a lot of, you know, fluff here to hire people. We're going to have to do a lot of it ourselves or, you know, whatever that is. So just have a team around you. I listed here, I think I mentioned all of them, property management, company, contractor, attorney, CPA, you know, just name all those and have that spelled out. So when issues do come up and there is a flood at 2:00 in the morning on Sunday, on the weekend, that you're not then going to Google, you're like, no, already I have a plumber, I have a contractor. I you know, if it's a property management company, I can tell you they have a team, you know, ready to go for you. So.

BEN: So marry a certified CPA is what you're saying?

ERIC: Yeah. I mean, if you want to if you want to be super efficient with this. Yeah. When you're when you're courting your spouse or your to be spouse, you know, you're, you're engaged, just make sure that they check some of those boxes. Yeah. Um yeah. So know your why treat as an investment know your costs have a team those are four five have a general understanding of the tenant landlord laws in your area. So in Arizona, we'll speak from, you know, there's the tenant landlord act, right? And you do not need to memorize it. You don't need to study it, but read it at least once. Yeah, be aware, be aware, you know, and have an understanding of, you know, the basic rights of a tenant. And it doesn't matter where you are in any state, no matter how strict or not strict the laws are, tenants have rights and they should, you know, and they need to we need to understand what those rights are and not only those rights and then draw a line, but understand, you know, the tenants rights, the landlord's rights and that gray area in the middle where you're going to have to flex and bend. Then be understanding, right? Um, and that kind of bleeds into the next bullet point we made here of knowing about or have knowledge of fair housing. So on the federal level and the state level and the city level, you know, I've mentioned it in previous episodes, the city of Mesa, the city of Tucson, the town of Gilbert, they have different fair housing laws within their town or city. Yeah. Then you have the state and then you have the federal. And what applies to you, what doesn't apply to you. And if you self-manage, you're held to a different standard than if you hire a third party management company. They are held to a different standard. Yeah. If your management company requires a licensed broker, they're held to a higher standard than somebody who is not you know, does not have a license and so forth.

BEN: I think this is important, too, because. It's surprising how much is in there. You know. You think. You think, you know, like. Yeah, don't you know, don't discriminate based on race or, you know, you think you know all the boxes to check and it's surprising, you know the the wording of it and how carefully you need to be and make sure that you're you're following that to the letter of the law.

ERIC: Yeah. And we'll get to that on the don'ts. But it's like if you know fair housing, then you're automatically not going to do some of the things we're going to say don't do. Yeah. Like don't discriminate based off this, this and this or don't you know, just because in your head you mentioned, you know, maybe this quote, ideal family didn't move into your rental. And it's like, hey, none of that matters. You know, the fair housing laws, you know, spell that out. And and once you've been through a cycle or two of tenancies and you've leased the property and you've moved them out, you do get to the point where you're like, You know what? I don't care about that stuff anymore, right? The kids or the pets or the I care about the investment and that they're taking care of the property, that it's appreciating that I'm getting the right tax advice and I'm using a property management company I know and trust, you know, and that that type of stuff kind of just falls into place. Um, I would say the next one, this is super important. And do you know what? If you're going to number them, this may be, number one, be open and flexible to adapting to the market. And we're experiencing that right now. Big time. Big time. You know where the market is different than it was a month ago.

ERIC: It's different than it was three months ago, six months ago and a year ago. And that sounds cliche, you know, but it really is. When interest rates were super low, the the rental market was different. Interest rates are high. The rental market is directly affected. Yeah, because investors are making decisions differently. Home buyers that would be home buyers are now not buying. They're renting people that we're going to sell. They can't sell for as much as they were, so they're deciding to rent, right? And so funny enough, the sales market is saturated, but also the rental market is saturated. And so you need to be open and flexible to adapt in real time. It's not, oh, let's just wait 30 days and see, you know, it's like, no, you need to adjust today. Yeah. Um, no less than 30 minutes ago. So I actually just came over here from an appointment. Um, and my property manager works for us. He's amazing. Noah. He emails me and says, Hey, one of your tenants is wondering if they can end their lease early. They need to move. They can't renew at the end of January. They'd like to move at the end of December. And I'm sitting there going, Oh man, I could hold them to the lease, but ask them why they're moving.

ERIC: Because if they want to move, because rents are going up, like I'm willing to keep rent the same. In fact, let's see what they say. I would even lower the rent to help them stay. So he asked him and I said, Hey, do you know what? Lower offer him a renewal for $50 less a month, See if they'll stay. So. So, man, that'd be great. Come to find out. It's not to do with finances, but, um, they said, Hey, I'm losing my roommate, or I'm losing this, this and this. Rent going to have to be $400 a month less in rent. And I was like, I can't do 400. But I could have done 50 or 100 all day. I would have done right. Because I understand the vacancy costs me a lot. Leasing and marketing fees and utilities and and that sort of and the liability of owning a vacant property. And so anyway, the I was open and flexible right away because I'm like, Dude, I can't have this place vacant during Christmas or during, you know, the first of the year when it's slow. So, you know, it's happening right now. I'm going to have a vacancy here in a month and I wasn't planning on. So I'm going to have to look at, okay, I need to be open and flexible to that market.

BEN: We're seeing a lot of now to people that you know well. You know, somebody else on the street six months ago rented out the same floor plan for, you know, $3,000. And it's like, well, that was six months ago.

ERIC: Now it's 26. Yeah, 28.

BEN: Yeah, yeah. It's drastically changed. And and it is a struggle where people aren't adapting fast enough and we're constantly encouraging them. Like you got to move where the market is or it's going to sit and.

ERIC: Landlords and sellers and owners of real estate are realizing it. I just don't I don't know how to emphasize enough that you can't wait a month to see what happens and then adjust. Right? Do you need to adjust today? And it might you might have to adjust again next week and again next week. And you don't need to do huge adjustments. Just be flexible and open. Trust your property manager, trust your, you know, the trust your team, your property manager, trust your contractors just to get stuff done, your attorneys and so forth. Um, next on the list here, be prepared for for the unexpected. So, you know, it almost again, sounds like this is just me this year, right? Just expect the unexpected is the repairs tenant loses their job, tenant gives notice early, like, hey, the one I just mentioned, the lease ends in January. They're moving at the end of December. Whether I want to work with them or not. Like, Hey, I'm moving. So you either can work with me and let me end a month early, and that way we can show it and market it early. Or I'm just going to turn in keys a month early and and say, you know, Hey, come after me. So we're going to work with them and figure out a buyout or, you know, negotiate that out. But you need to be you need to not only be prepared for the unexpected, but expect the unexpected. Right.

BEN: Um, we've said this several times now, but you had to buy a roof this year. You had to buy an AC unit this year. You know, things that you're not prepared for, but you can't just have a rental property that doesn't have a functioning roof. Yeah.

ERIC: And I've got a property with with a couple partners and we there was a repair came through and, you know, the HVAC technicians like, hey, look, I could fix it for X or I could replace it for three times that. And I'm sitting there, we're on a group text and we're like, What do you guys think? Should we just replace it? Like, dude, let's just replace it. I'm like, Dude, we were not planning on replacing this. We just bought this place. It's only seven, eight years old, but it's just a fluke thing and, you know, it's just an unexpected repair. Yeah, it hurts less when you split it three ways, but. But it also is like, dude, that was not expected. No matter what. No matter how you dice it, you know? Um, so prepare for the unexpected. Expect the unexpected. Next, top ten things to do. Use a licensed, bonded insured contractor for repairs. Yeah, so that's easy. From our side of the table, it's like, Hey, mister. Property owner, Mrs. Property owner, please use a licensed, bonded insured contractor. We require it, you know, when you when we're managing your property. So that's easy. But I'm telling you, when you self manage, it is so easy to use your guy or your gal to do your handyman repairs. Use your uncle to save you a hundred bucks. Yeah. Um, I was talking to a property manager today. I have a marco polo group with with a couple brokers and he's like, Oh, I had one of the properties. I manage catch on fire last night. Um, because and I think it's because of a contractor or a handyman that did something that caught it on fire during a repair. Yeah. And I'm just like, Dude, I hope they were licensed, bonded and insured because that $200 you saved.

ERIC: Yeah. May get you a denial on your insurance claim. Yeah. You know, and then they're going to come after you for your general liability because you didn't hire a licensed, bonded insured contractor. So that one's super, super important, super relevant even to a conversation I had today. And then the last and this is more of a in the top ten. Make sure you have an annual review of your investment. You know, it doesn't have to be formal, but at least annually, a lot of times it comes at your lease renewal time because you're talking about rent, you're talking about maintenance, you're talking about you're talking to your property manager anyway, is review things. You know, when does when should we up the rent next? Should I refinance this property, check rates and stuff out? Should I consider, hey, is this one going well? Should I buy another one? Hopefully you're not investing in rentals so that every year you're determining should I sell this? I hope that everyone listening gets into this. And you you want to buy a rental or convert your primary residence to a rental to keep it forever. Right? The idea is you're going to keep this thing long term and that if you are going to sell, you're going to 1031, exchange it into another one or exchange it into two. So hopefully your annual review doesn't turn into I want to sell this thing, right? Because most people I sell their properties for, they're like, Man, I shouldn't have sold. You know, they're five years down the line. They're looking at real estate values. Just keep going up and up and up. And they're like, Man, I should have for what? I was into that thing. I should have kept it.

BEN: If you're doing the annual review, too, you're looking at the whole picture instead of just, you know, if you talk to you the day after you had to got a bill to replace a roof, you're probably like, get rid of this thing. Yeah. Know Absolutely. But you got to look at the big picture and be like, yes, that was, you know, one down in a year of, you know, UPS.

ERIC: So and one of the things I keep a it's kind of a spreadsheet that I that I got from a friend, but he it's called a net worth spreadsheet. So at the end of every month I'll put in how much did my tenants pay off the mortgage like, so what's my mortgage balance. Right? And then at the end of the year, you can look at it and go, Oh man, I didn't make any money As far as repairs, cash flow. Oh, but my tenant paid off $8,000 of principal balance on my loan this year. Like, Oh man. Yeah, there's the silver lining and keeping this thing. Yeah. And then when you do your taxes, you're like, oh, the depreciation or the writing off the repairs or the property management fees or, you know, whatever it is. And a lot of times the silver lining of owning it isn't until you take a step back and realize, yeah, I had to replace the roof. Oh, but do you know what? The tenant paid off $10,000 of principal this year? Or I get to write off that interest or that that expense on my taxes or, you know, that sort of thing. So make sure that you are doing that at least annually. It doesn't need to be formal with your property manager. A lot of times that's not a lot. Times that conversation is going to be with your CPA or your spouse or it's going to be, you know, you just sit back and you read through the statements and you read through your your mortgage statements, your property taxes, your HOA fees, your and you just look at all of it and say, okay, what am I doing? Understand my why going back to that and then it kind of rebalances you and reboots you to what you're going to do next year, right?

BEN: All right. I think that was ten, right? Yeah, that's.

ERIC: Ten. So, okay. Not not in any order.

BEN: Not in any order. All important. Well, then let's move to the don'ts. Okay. Top ten Things a person should never do or know not to do when owning a rental property.

ERIC: Number one, don't hire this company. No, I'm just don't hire our competitor. Yeah, no, Um, okay, we'll just. We'll just jump in here. And again, we prepared this a little bit, but no particular order. Yeah, no particular order. Number one being, don't assume your property and your taste is the best. And you know what? I put that one and I put in parentheses. You had an example about a jungle house or something.

BEN: Oh, right. Yeah. Matt was telling us that, um, the entire house was painted safari. Safari themed? Yeah. Yeah, There's gorillas in the living room, and, like, tigers in the kitchen. It's like you might think that's cool, but don't assume that everyone else does.

ERIC: Oh, yeah. No, it's just the classic. Like, my house is. My house is the best. Yeah. It's like I put those floors in myself. Like these. These are beautiful. Yeah, it was ten years ago, and it's way out of date now, and it's, you know, not not trendy anymore, but yeah, you know, so you just have to realize that your property and your taste may not be what is in it may not be what's the best. And don't be offended when your property manager or your rental expert comes in and says, Hey, we need to repaint this whole house. Yeah, you just painted three years ago green and blue and black. We need to paint it a white or a neutral color. Um, another. The next one. Don't let your property sit vacant too long. Remember, that's your number one expense.

BEN: We hit that all the time.

ERIC: All the time. And, you know, if you're listening to this, you're like, Dude, you say that every week, but it totally is. I look at that example of I've got a vacancy coming up and I'm going to lose more in vacancy than we will by lowering the rent $100. Yeah, it's like, you know, vacancy costs the most. So do not let it sit too long. If it's sitting for more than two weeks, be proactive and call, you know, lower the price yourself or call your property manager. Make sure they're lowering that price.

BEN: And I learned last episode, I had no idea but when we were talking about insurance that. If it sits vacant for it's like 30 days or whatever. Yeah. Then your insurance won't cover if somebody comes in and vandalizes it. Yeah.

ERIC: You're, you're opening up your yourself to liability there anyway. Yeah. There's multiple reasons. Um, next, do not give your tenants your phone number. Yeah. Your personal cell phone. Yeah, your personal cell phone number. So this is tough to do if you're self managing, right? I mean, that's part of the gig, right? They know they have to know how to get a hold of you. Um, but even then, like, maybe get a Google voice number for your, for your rentals or I mean, you really should just hire us or hire another management company in your, in your area and create a buffer between you and the tenant and that it's not so that the tenant doesn't get great service. It's actually the opposite. And they're going to be able to get better service, 24 hour service and so forth if they have have somebody else to reach out to. Yeah. The next one kind of piggybacks off of the do use a licensed bonded insured contractor. Do not hire the Craigslist wonder or your best friend to save a little bit of money on maintenance. Yeah. And so we're mentioning that on the do and the don't because it is double important. Um countless we have countless stories. I mean, it's not even funny. Some people, uh, what they'll do to save a buck and then they'll quickly regret it.

BEN: Um, yeah, Craigslist is just probably a bad idea for just about everything.

ERIC: Yeah. Yeah, Don't.

BEN: There's other avenues.

ERIC: There's other avenues, especially for service service companies or contractors. The next one do not get or don't guess, hire an expert. So this is almost kind of with the fair housing stuff you mentioned, like, don't don't pretend like you're the expert and say, Oh, do you know what? This is my interpretation of it. I'm going to roll with it. Yeah. An example would be we've had self managers that hire us later on that are like that would deny animals, you know. Yeah. Emotional support animals. So deny them as pets. They're like, oh yeah, no pets. I don't care if it's or not. And it's like, Oh dude, don't do that. Yeah, please don't do that. Yeah. Um, or.

BEN: Even we talked about last episode. I keep going back to the insurance because I learned way more about insurance than I've ever had in my life. But that. You know, you're. I would have never guessed to switch my insurance. If I'm moving out of a property and someone else is moving in, But an expert's going to be like, Hey. You got to switch that or else you're committing insurance fraud. Inadvertently.

ERIC: Yeah. And the there's kind of the. When you hire a property manager, they should give you a couple of guidelines. It's like, Here, here's a minimum limit. You need to switch your insurance. You need to register it with the county. You got to register with the city sales tax, license for rental tax, you know, all these different things that you would not know if you did it yourself. So you need to lean on an expert there. So don't guess. Hire an expert. Next one, don't cut corners on costs. That's kind of a general statement, but that it's an umbrella on all things, not just maintenance. It could be on property management. The cheapest is not necessarily the best. Yeah, you get what you pay for. Don't cut corners on costs. It has to do with upgrades. This even has to be on purchase price on a property. It's like, you know, just because it's the cheapest house available doesn't mean it's the best rental. And inverse to that because it's expensive doesn't mean it's going to be the best rental either. Yeah.

BEN: Yeah, exactly.

ERIC: Um, I'm trying to think here what? Had something in my head, but I'll move on. Let's see. Don't discount your time. So how much is your time worth? We've mentioned that a dozen times. Yeah, that. Don't discount your time. You've got to figure out like, I'm going to spend X amount a week or x amount of hours a week or a year managing this myself. How much time and money am I really saving? If I am saving money, how much time is it taking me? Divide that by how much it would cost to hire somebody and you determine Is my time worth that? Yeah. And I can tell you, nine times out of ten people are like, oh my gosh, it's that affordable to have a property management company and I can deduct those fees on my taxes. Sign me up.

BEN: And when they find out, they would be essentially getting less than minimum wage for what they're doing, they're like, oh, wait a sec. No, I wouldn't do all this for $5 an hour. And it's like, well, you are currently.

ERIC: Exactly. Um, yeah. Spend that time with your family or spend that time learning a new trade or advancing your career so you can buy more rentals. Yeah, it's a it's kind of one of those things you just got to commit to do it. Next is dispositions. Do not overcharge, Do not flirt with the line. Make sure that those are absolutely correct and be fair. Yeah. Um, dispositions, the security deposit disposition where you're accounting for that security deposit at the end of the lease, most self managers that end up hiring us have botched that big time. We're taking over a four plex right now from a self manager to a professional manager. You know our firm now. And the owner called the sales guy and said, hey, I had a tenant move out two weeks or three weeks ago. Can you just do the security deposit disposition? We're like, Oh yeah, When did they move out? Oh, like three and a half weeks ago. It was like we looked at the calendar. We're like, Oh, that's more than 14 business days ago. You're in breach. Yeah. And we kind of counseled her and just said, Hey, do you know what? Just return the whole deposit. You going to nickel and dime here and there for a couple hundred bucks? But you're going to lose that anyway if you don't just give her the money back, right? So, um, don't don't mess with it there. It's a there's big penalties and it's not worth it. Okay, a couple more here. Number. Well, guess they're not numbered. But the second to last one, right? Yeah. Don't be too judgmental. And that. That sounds hilarious. But we were talking yesterday, and that's really what it is. Yeah. It's like that's what.

BEN: It boils down to.

ERIC: Don't judge them. You know, some of your perfect tenant in your mind may or may not be married. They may or may not have kids or pets or, you know, be have this perfect rental history, but you're going to learn over time. None of that matters. Not only are they protected by the fair housing laws and so forth, that's a given. But you just want somebody that's there. They're paying rent on time. They're taking care of your property. That's it. Yeah.

BEN: You don't want to assume, you know, especially if you have a property management company that's doing a a vetted application process. If they bring it to you, you know, they're bringing it to you because this is it. You know, move in. Don't don't nitpick and judge like I really want to 817 credit score and this guy's only got a 750 and it's like okay that's.

ERIC: Actually that's actually how this came to be. Ben and I were Googling it yesterday like what's the average credit score in Maricopa County, Pinal County, what's considered good, what's considered bad? And then we looked and we're like, what's happening is our clients, you know, are the property owners are Googling it and they're going, that's a bad credit score. Because Google told me and I'm like, Dude, I'm telling you, this is a good applicant. Yeah. And just because they had a medical bill or, you know, something come up like, this is a great applicant, you know? Yeah, there's.

BEN: A million things that could lower your credit score and, you know, and take forever to get back. And they could have had, you know, ten years of great rental history since then. Yeah.

ERIC: And it really is, you know, some of our our clients, again, they're like, well, I have an 800 credit score. I can't accept X. Yeah. You know, And I'm like, Look, man, they're in a different spot, you know, just like you were, you know, before when you started out. So don't be judgmental. That's kind of an overlaying again, an umbrella statement. But the tenant situation is, is their is their situation. And you got to be you got to realize those they're going to rent from somebody. And if they check all the boxes, we have to accept them anyways. Yeah. Yeah. And the last one, I love it. This is the best. I think Ben came up with this one, But don't be that guy. Yeah, don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. So, you know, in my world as the property management side of things, that guy is like the Karen or the Chad they call it. Yeah, I guess the Karen is the woman, the chad, the guy that just constantly complains, constantly just points the finger, constantly stomps in the office and it's like, Dude, we're more than willing to work with everybody. Yeah, don't be that guy. Don't be don't be the one that, you know is is making your life miserable. Working with the property manager as a partnership. Um, it's not quite a marriage. Yeah, but. But it is a partnership. You know, you do have to build trust, and there are going to be issues. And hopefully you build trust, trust, trust, trust. And then when one of the parties, either the owner or the tenant or the property manager screws up, there's enough trust built where they go. Do you know what, Ben? I get it, man. You forgot to do that. Let's. Let's move on. Forgive and forget. Let's move on.

BEN: Or we see a lot, um, where it's, you know, oftentimes we're the messenger. We're bringing, not the news they want to hear. And it's like, you know, we'll hear these phone calls where somebody just goes off on someone and it's like she she didn't do anything. She's trying to help you with your investment property and you're laying into this person and it's like, just don't just don't be caring. Yeah, Just don't be that guy, you know?

ERIC: So don't be that guy, in quotes is the best. I mean, I would say on the dos, looking at the top one is know your why. Why are you investing? Why do you own a rental? Why are you hiring a manager? Why are you doing this? Yeah, because if you're miserable doing it, you need to get out of the game. First of all. Yeah. I mean, and understand, maybe you're a better. Maybe you're a better investor in stocks or crypto or, or whatever. Just hoarding cash, gold, whatever it is. But understand your why I think is the biggest do the biggest don't is don't be that guy.

BEN: Just don't do it. Yeah.

ERIC: Just let, let yourself be uh, be open to being educated on how to be the best investor you can be. Yeah, you'll be successful.

BEN: So awesome. All right. Love it. Love a good list. So that's it for us this time. We will see you guys next time. And be sure to like and if you can subscribe and leave us a review wherever you're listening to this, it really helps out. And we'll see you guys next time.